From Reaction to Proaction: Transforming Corporate Security Leadership with Dave Komendat

0:01

CHUCK:
Hello and welcome to the Ontic Connected Intelligence Podcast. I’m Chuck Randolph, Ontic’s Chief Security Officer. Join us as we delve into valuable insights and practical advice that will empower you to navigate the complexities of modern corporate security and risk. We’re here to share knowledge from experienced leaders and innovators in the field. All right, get settled and let’s dive in. Dave Commandant is the former Vice President and Chief Security Officer for the Boeing Company, where he led the enterprise-wide security program. With over 36 years in security, law enforcement, crisis management, he was responsible for protecting Boeing’s global workforce and assets. Dave is a recognized leader in the corporate security space and continues to influence industry and leadership through consulting and advisory roles. Dave, welcome back to the Connected Intelligence Podcast, my friend.

DAVE:
Hey, Chuck, thanks for having me a second time. I thought after the first time I’d be off the list permanently.

CHUCK:
Well, that nobody saw the list. So it’s fine. No, we’re it’s, it’s exciting. I mean, obviously, there’s some, you know, big things to talk about for Ontic and for places that that you that you have homes at. But also, I think we receive like, I personally received a lot of feedback from the last time we spoke, we’ve received some emails, I got some text messages. And I thought it’d be a great opportunity for us to kind of come on and do some of those Q&As, which we don’t often get that kind of overwhelming response. But you know, Dave, there you go. That’s the list you’re on.

DAVE:
Well, I appreciate the opportunity to be back again. So thanks for having me.

1:42

CHUCK:
ISOS and Ontic, you know, back at GSX, there was an announcement of a partnership between the two organizations. I mean, both clearly are transforming industries in their own area. I mean, you as somebody who has been an enterprise leader, somebody who still is quite involved in the industry, as we, you know, as we just said, Dave, as a leader, I mean, what’s exciting in that partnership for you?

DAVE:
I think it’s the quintessential win-win. Quite honestly, I think the value proposition for International SOS is they get a great platform and a great set of tools that’s offered by OnTech. This is one of those capabilities that I think takes already a large installed base of customers for international SOS and just allows them the capability to have really cutting edge technology at their fingertips

CHUCK:
um helping them better utilize the ISOS capabilities and and that’s just a significant win well i was just thinking like from the ISOS i mean look travel risk management is quintessential to anybody’s corporate security program whether you’re uh whether you’re the the army of one so to speak or you’re at an enterprise level where you have three 400 folks working for I mean, travel safety is, again, you know, it’s, it’s that quintessential element. And I think, you know, the power of bringing the software into that TRM expertise is, I don’t know, it’s just it, it up levels at threefold.

DAVE:
Absolutely. And, you know, travel risk management is such an important part of duty of care. We’ve got employees traveling all over the world 24 seven, And the ability to know where they are, the ability to push them information quickly if a situation changes at the city level, state level, country level, regional level, to be able to do that in a quick and efficient way that’s kind of customizable for that particular customer is just super important. And quite frankly, it’s an expectation from people today. Employees expect to be taken care of. They expect to be given information. And so you know, the on tech platform helping to refine what International SOS already does is just a real game changer.

CHUCK:
Yeah, you know, Dave, you bring up a really good point. I mean, I’m not saying like, we’re, we’re old in the industry, but you know, we came into the industry separately in places where you just kind of showed up, you did your nine to five, you know, you worked hard. I mean, people obviously in the security industry, feel the protection effort a little bit closer to their heart. But you’re I think you, you touch on something that’s really important. It’s the cultural aspect that has such a bigger play now, I think than it has in years. And I think there’s some, you’re right, employees, there’s an expectation of care, the duty of care, if you will. But I think it’s far more, it’s far more visible, far more palatable to employees nowadays. Would you agree with that?

DAVE:
Yeah, I would. I think based on what just happens in the world every single day, the things that we all see on the nightly news or that we read about, those have an impact on employees and their feeling of safety. And I think they gravitate towards companies and workplaces where they feel like they can go into their work environment, whether they’re sitting at a desk or other job requires extensive traveling and feel like that company that they work for is putting their safety as one of the primary priorities. And I think that’s a differentiator. Companies that do that well, I think you see that reflected on employee survey scores. Companies that don’t, I think you see the same impact in a negative way.

CHUCK:
I see people leaving because of it. I mean, I’ve got several folks I’ve mentored who, hey, I’m leaving a really good paying job with a really, you know, with a big logo because I’m just not satisfied that It’s a cultural fit for me. And that’s a conversation I’ve had with folks that I mentor. I’m sure you’ve had the same work. I would say over the last, you know, maybe since COVID, if you will, that’s creeped up more in in the discussion.

DAVE:
Yeah, I would agree 100%. I think people post COVID are really looking for what is the right fit for me. It’s not just about a paycheck anymore. It’s about being fairly compensated. in a place where you feel comfortable coming to work each day. And if those two don’t align, then you’re right, then people move on.

06:39

CHUCK:
Yeah. That’s kind of a great segue into, like I said, Dave, when we spoke last, I received a lot of feedback from some of your peers, some of my peers, emails from some of our clients and folks in the industry that said, gosh, I wish I could have been there and been part of the conversation. So what I did was I I took a bunch of the questions and I kind of grouped them into three areas, and I’d love to get some of your follow-ups from our original conversation. First one being on proactive risk management. Last time you were on, we talked about the importance of getting upstream to use the Dan Heathism to identify risk before they happen. the question came around or the comment is like, can you guys comment on how do companies turn this into a regular practice? And I’d like to add to that, Dave, like, how as a leader, do you turn that into a, one of those Lencioni obsessions that you have in order to see something and not always be seen as reactionary after a crisis?

DAVE:
Yeah, I think you have to be very intentional about it. If you’re going to have an effective risk management program at a company, then you’ve got to build some discipline into it. And part of that discipline is being proactive and first and foremost, acknowledging the fact that you’re going to look out over the horizon. You’re going to do that intentionally and you’re going to do it on a regular basis so that you can, to the extent humanly possible, begin to foresee the types of threats that might impact your company. your supply chain, your people, whatever the case might be. And I think it’s important, if you’re going to do that, to share with senior leadership in the company why you’re doing that. Why is that important? Why is that a value creator for the company? Because you’re right. I think it’s important that leadership hears from the security leader on a frequent basis, not from a crying wolf perspective where every time there’s an incident around the world, the CEO or members of his leadership team or her leadership team are getting hit with emails from you. But they know that when you reach out, there’s been thoughtful discipline processes put in place to bring them a piece of information. And then when you’re putting it on their desk, and you’re saying, this is an informally, it’s early, but we felt it was important enough where we wanted to put this on your radar screen. No help needed at this time. But we want to make sure that, you know, we’re looking at this. And down the road, if we see these types of tripwires happening, we may need to take some action. We will come back to you at that point with some recommendations.

CHUCK:
Yeah, I love that, especially because senior leaders know how to think. I mean, arguably, they’re a senior leader, they have an understanding of how to think. But I think often, as security leaders, One of our jobs is to kind of help them understand what to think about, you know, because they have access to the BBC, MSNBC, Fox News, whatever news outlet, media outlet you want, the same as we do. But I think in all that massive amounts of information, and I think that’s maybe one of the troubling issues now. I mean, I love the fact that we have all this information, but in that we have to understand like, what is it that’s important to the organization? And this is what I’d like, if you’re thinking about security for five minutes today, here’s the three things I’d like you to consider or what to think about from our perspective. I mean, Dave, as someone who ran an enterprise level and someone who consults enterprise level organizations now, I mean, first off, how do you give yourself permission to look at that and not, you know, like we said earlier, culture has a fit. How do you come to the office and a couple times a week, or maybe even it’s once a day, give yourself that permission to look at risk and to think about it. And to contemplate, I mean, I know it’s easy to say, but when you’re sitting in the office and your, you know, your priorities and requirements are staring at you in the face, I mean, how do you give yourself permission to do that?

DAVE:
Well, I think, and you’ve heard this before, Chuck, in the many roles you’ve had. you have a senior leader in the company sitting across from you and he’ll say, hey Chuck, that’s your job. You know, your job is to keep me smart on the things I need to know. And so I think that’s when permission is granted, right? That leadership team for whatever company you work for hired you specifically to be that security expert. They have to be a mile wide and inch deep and all the different things that happen within a company. And you’re that person, you’re that leader, that vertical where they expect tremendous subject matter expertise. And so when you come to them with a recommendation, in most cases, they are entrusting that you have put the time and effort in, that you understand the company’s culture, that you understand them well enough that when you bring them a recommendation or you bring them a risk and a solution to that risk or several solutions to that risk, that you have thought through those things. And so I think a lot of times that’s where security leaders get into trouble, that they seek permission. They’re trying to figure out, do I have the authority to do this? And I think that’s a dangerous spot to be in as a leader. I think you should assume the fact that you do have the authority, that the leadership of your company expects that you’re doing these things. They expect to be communicated with at the right time about appropriate incidents. And if you’re doing that, then that’s all the permission you need. If you’re not doing that, that’s you mentioned that earlier in the conversation. That’s where that quote surprise factor comes in, where all of a sudden you drop something on somebody’s desk with with no forewarning. And in some cases, that absolutely happens if you just have something that came out of the blue. But if it was something that was relatively predictable and at the point you’re bringing it to their desk, it’s a problem already for the company. And it’s the first time they’re hearing about it. That’s not a position you want to be in. You want to be well in front of something like that.

12:50

CHUCK:
You know, this is kind of segues to the next question. I don’t want to fully leave this, but I want to add the next question into this, which is around building trust with business leaders. And, you know, Dave, you said something in there I think is important, which is we want to forewarn, you know, what is it? We want to forewarn that, hey, there’s a potential issue. We’re looking at this and we might need assistance should this escalate. In that, we’re really talking about building trust and enabling trust between the security apparatus and the C-suite so that they know, as you said, I know you’ve got the company’s backs, air quotes here. How do we how do we build that trust with business leaders ahead of the crisis, so they understand, we’re looking at what’s important to the organization, not just what, you know, what we like Dave or Chuck as citizens might think are important. You know, there’s that fine line between like, I used to say when I was in the military, you know, I worked at corporate America, there’s things that Chuck Randolph citizens interested in. There’s things that, you know, Lieutenant Colonel Randolph is interested in. And then there’s things that like corporate citizen Randolph are interested in, you know, how, how should leaders think about, you know, dealing with those three sides of their of their brain?

DAVE:
That’s a great question. And, And it’s not really an easy answer because every one of us has a different personality and a different leadership style and a different communication style. So what would work for me or you might not work for somebody else. And I think the first thing that you have to do in building trust with leaders is you need to understand your leader and you need to understand how he or she thinks, what’s important to them, what type of communication do they like to receive, at what frequency, and then you have to adapt to that leader. Regardless of your communication style, that’s your leader, and you’ve got to figure out how to be an effective partner with him or her. I think one of the ways you build confidence with a leader is that you run a good business. Security is a business, and the CSOs that run their organizations like a business that are articulate about how they’re spending their money, that they can talk about the risks that they’re trying to mitigate, that they have value metrics that show the efficacy of the services and programs that they put in place. You’ve now kind of established yourself as a business leader and not just the security leader. He or she will look at you just the same way they do at any of their their P&L or other service group leaders, if you can do that effectively. And if you can, and I think that’s a foundational building block of building trust, if they know that you understand the company’s mission, you’re effectively running a program, you’re managing your costs, and you’re communicating things that they need to know at the frequency that they need to know it, I think that that buys you credibility. If they don’t know anything about you, if they don’t really understand what you do or how you do it, and you’ve had no face time with them, they don’t even know who you are really, and then you come to them with a problem, it doesn’t mean that they’re not going to listen. But I think it makes everyone’s job harder. They’ve got to spend some time and try to determine Do I believe this person? Are they overreacting? I don’t really know him or her, this CSO person that just darkened my doorway, but they’re giving me something really important. Now I got to figure out, gosh, what kind of research do I need to do to vet this? If they’re having that discussion with themselves when you’re bringing them information, I would say you’ve not built the trust yet that you need to build. What should happen is you come into that doorway, you impart the information you need to impart. There’s some questions back and forth. And when you walk out the door, I think if you have a trusted relationship, the response should be, thank you, Chuck. Keep me informed. Let me know how I can help. That’s a trusted relationship.

CHUCK:
Dave, let me ask you a question as a bit of a follow-up in building trust with hire, if you will. I’m a new CSO. You’re mentoring me. And Dave, I’ve got my first meeting with the CEO. What should I talk about? They’ve just set up 35 minutes or 30 minutes on a calendar. I mean, this is something we see a lot like, okay, you’ve been newly hired, you’re going to go and brief or you’re going to go and have coffee or get to know several people in the organization. I mean, and you just said something like I need them to see me as a trusted individual, maybe not as a as a It’s something I came from, if you will, because sometimes I think as leaders, we can kind of hold on to what we were as opposed to what we need to be. I mean, what’s your advice for that? Like, I have 30 minutes with the CEO of this organization. What should I talk about?

DAVE:
Yeah, I think, again, everybody’s personality is a little bit different. I’ll just pull from kind of the speech I used. And I had multiple CEOs during my tenure at Boeing. And I would always start that first discussion with My job is to enable Boeing business. My job is to help the business units be successful anywhere in the world that they need to be successful with any customer. My job is to not always say yes, it’s to say we can and here’s how. Because there may be situations where we’re asked to do something or we’re asked to be able to find a way and it may not be exactly the way that It was asked to be done, but we’re going to provide several alternatives that allow them to safely and securely accomplish the business that they need to accomplish. They get to pick which one they want to use. We’ll talk about the risk and risk levels associated with each of those selections, because ultimately they’re the risk owner, right? It’s my job to present risk. It’s your job to accept it or not accept it. And and so I think when I would get that first opportunity, it would be very business like discussion. I did not get into the nuts and bolts unless they wanted to go there. And most times what would happen is we’d have that first discussion and they’d say, I want you to come back later this quarter and I want to get into all the different services that you guys provide. I want to understand a little bit more. That’s great. That’s when you can kind of get a little bit more tactical, pull back the curtain, let them know all the capabilities that internally exist and where you go out and you buy capabilities so that they have a generally a broad understanding of what you do. But I always looked at that first discussion as an opportunity for them to know I’m a business leader here. My job is to support the rest of the business leaders here and we’re going to do everything possible to find a way to make them successful in a safe and secure manner.

CHUCK:
Yeah, I love that too because You didn’t come in and say, Hey, I’m I’m Dave, come with me if you want to live, you know, you didn’t come in and say, Hey, I’m Dave. And by the way, I was 20 years in this, you just came in and said, I’m here to enable a business. And I’m an options development machine, which I think if I’m a leader, that’s great. Because if I can be given courses of action, and I understand, you know, the most likely the most deadly, etc, etc, then I then I can make a decision off of that. And it makes I don’t want to say it makes my job easier, but it lightens my load because then I know like, oh, I can give that to my security protection risk management brain over here. And he or she is going to help me develop options. And maybe even I can look at them to be more of a connector within my risk or my larger risk framework, too, if you will.

DAVE:
Yeah, my goal always was to walk out of that meeting And as that new CEO is coming on board and he or she is going through their checklist of things that they have to work on immediately or fix or spend time on was to have my organization not even on their radar screen. From that perspective, I wanted them to go, boom, that place is squared away. They know what they’re doing. I don’t have to give this much time or attention. I’m going to go focus my time and energy on other parts of the organization. where their help might be more needed.

21:51

CHUCK:
Yeah, and I think we want to avoid this like break glass in case of emergency. You know, I think all the beginning when you said, look, we’re insecure, we’re business folks, our business just happens to be security. I love the fact like, let’s make let’s make ourselves approachable. And let’s be seen as an equal amongst, you know, my level set strategic partners, and not be seen as like, oh, we break glass and kind of cool stuff happens. But you know, when the emergency is over, you’re, you know, you, you then run the risk of being uninvested in, if you will, and things like that. So I wonder, Dave, was there a point in your career that you realize you kind of elevated to a strategic level? Or was it just like, over time, your thinking started changing?

DAVE:
I think when we were able to finally core up our organization, and that was in the 2013 timeframe. Prior to that, prior to my taking over as CSO, the organization had been somewhat federated. We had groups of parts of security at the facilities organization. Parts of it were cored up at kind of a governance level. We had some of it within the business units. And once we were able to kind of consolidate it and have a singular function, that’s when I felt like it was a lot easier to be strategic, because everything that had to do with security was in one place. We were our own vertical. We were solely responsible for our costs. And there was no other, you know, there was no other belly button to point to, but ours. And so at that point, I felt like it was imperative that we had an organizational strategy that we were effective in communicating it. not only with my peers in the division I was part of, but with business leaders throughout the company. And when we would have our annual leadership team meetings, I would make it a point to try to meet as many people in that room that I didn’t know and give them the 30-second elevator pitch about what we did, just to demystify what the security organization of the Boeing company did for the company. And those were kind of important opportunities to be strategic, right? You can sit around and just talk to the people you know, or you can force yourself to sit at tables where you know no one and give them the opportunity because people are curious about what we do. I’ve learned that over my time. People are fascinated by what the security organization does, and the more they learn about what you do, the more opportunities that are created for your organization. We got invited to the table on lots of things. that we might not have known about if it weren’t for some of those relationships being established at some of these leadership meetings and having an opportunity just to chat or have a drink with somebody and tell them, here’s what we do, and here’s how we do it.

CHUCK:
I think you’re on to something there, too. As a leader, the responsibility is to lead and to broaden the understanding of your organization. I think we could say that that’s responsibility, whether you’re in security or, or whether you’re in facilities or wherever. And I think in security, we tend to flock together. So I think you’re absolutely right. You know, sit with strangers or, you know, I think there’s a book about have lunch with a stranger or something in order to help understand, listen first, understand their world, but then also you get a chance to give them that elevator pitch of here’s what we do. I think people sometimes are afraid, David, that’s going to demystify me as a Jedi Knight, if you will. I’m seen as this special individual within a corporation. I do things, but I think in demystifying that a bit, it makes you approachable. And I think to your point, it by being approachable, you’ll get asked to the table more because people are are unafraid to ask you to do something because they know like, Oh, I can call Dave Komendat. He’s, he’s good. He’s smooth. He’s strategic. He’s well thought of as opposed to like, I have no idea if I call Chuck Randolph, what the heck I’m gonna get.

DAVE:
I 100% agree. I think the, you know, building that trust where people are comfortable coming to with problems. I can remember one particular instance where a colleague came to me with a personal issue that was very significant. It was going to become public, not only in the company, but outside the company. But this individual had enough trust in me and members of my team to share something early. And we’re able to help him get ahead of the issue in a thoughtful way so that when it did come to light, he was prepared for what he was going to face. that things that he couldn’t mitigate, he was able to mitigate. And it had the best possible outcome it could have. And I think the only reason that happened is because there had been a level of trust build up. And he was willing to reach out and say, hey, I need your help on something. And I think that any time that we get that opportunity, as you said, to sit down and have lunch with a stranger, The goal is really, again, to be able to communicate the value proposition to your organization, because you never know throughout the course of your career where you might need help or an ally within the organization. And I always wanted to have people on my side. You know, if there was a gray area, I wanted to have people on my side and give us the benefit of the doubt because they knew me, they trusted me. We have been straightforward with them, transparent with them. And I think that that’s, that’s one of the reasons why you want to go out and do that at some point in your career, whether it’s budget reductions, headcount freezes, whatever might be going on in the company. There’s nothing more powerful than having a peer leader come back and say, you know, I know what Dave’s team does, and I think that they need the resource more than we need right now. So we’re willing to take a little bit more of a cut here. to continue to enable what they’re trying to protect over there. That is a super powerful thing when it happens. And it happened to me a number of times throughout my career. And it wouldn’t have happened if we wouldn’t have built those kind of trusted relationships where people understood what we were doing and what we were trying to protect, and how we were doing it. And them as an outsider looking at that saying, At this moment in time, what they’re doing is more important than what I’m doing. And so I’m going to give up a little bit more so they can maintain. And I did the same thing. There were times where I felt like I could give a little bit more than I was asked because some other part of the company, a peer that I work with on a regular basis, I knew what they were doing was critical and I knew that they were not staffed appropriately. And so we gave up a little bit of headcount so that they could fill gap and be better enabled.

CHUCK:
I mean, talk about a true measurement of effectiveness, though. I mean, the ability to say, I’ve built that much trust and goodness between my strategic partners and across my peer set that we have the ability to give and take. I mean, many listening in understand exactly where we’re coming from. And for those who maybe haven’t had that experience, I mean, corporate politics can be great, but they can be challenging as well.

DAVE:
I will say the one thing about this topic, and you’ve seen this too, is, you know, our industry has become more transitory than it was in the past. Long tenures used to be the norm. That’s not really the case anymore for a variety of reasons. And so that discussion we just had gets materially more difficult because in many cases, either yourself or the people that you’re working with, your tenures are shorter, and it’s harder to build those long term trust relationships because the pieces and the players are moving around more frequently.

29:59

CHUCK:
Yeah, that’s a very good point. And I think you’re absolutely right about the, the tenure cycle, and the transitory job of, of, of leadership as well. Dave, I want to ask one more kind of like We’ve been talking very strategically. And one of the questions I got, I thought it’d be great to have you comment on is about the team. And I know you’re a servant leader, like myself. And I think, you know, a lot of what we’re seeing today, well, it’s not a lot, we’re seeing permacrisis every day. I know that’s an overused word, but every day you pick up the phone or pick up your phone, if you’re still willing to have your phone on you. And you see the next thing happening or the next thing on the horizon. We’ve talked about, look, do your leader level horizon scan, have your conversations with the bosses. But now what happens when you turn around and you look at those analysts, those people in your team who are living this day to day, maybe they have less experience. This might be their first job out of college or out of whatever school they’ve come from. How do you manage burnout? How do you walk around and say, hey, it’s okay to let that go for five seconds today. Or it’s okay to like walk away from that. Because a lot of folks in our job, I do, I think they hold it very passionately. Every crisis could be taken on as their own. And I think burnout’s a real factor amongst practitioners. What’s your recommendations for leaders to help people avoid that?

DAVE:
100% agree. And I think, again, it’s a stylistic thing, but there’s a couple of things that we tried to do, and I think they were helpful. You know, I suffered from burnout. After the pandemic, myself and our chief medical officer had been given the responsibility to manage the pandemic effort for the Bowen Company. It was a two-year plus full-time job. I basically spent 85, 90% of my time for two years working this. And by the time we had kind of returned to some semblance of normalcy, I was done. I mean, I was emotionally done. And that was one of the reasons that I decided to retire when I did. But I think there’s a couple things that are really important. First, you have to recognize not only within yourself, but amongst your team, when this is occurring. And the only way you know is to go out and touch people. If you stay in your office all day and you don’t get out amongst the folks doing the real work in the organization, the security officer, the firefighter, the government security specialist, the cyber person, your business continuity, business resiliency team members. If you don’t find time to go sit down and just have a one-on-one personal conversation and start it out with, hey, how are you doing? What do we need to be doing differently or better? you’re going to not know what’s really happening in the organization. And so one of the things I tried to do with Frequency is make site visits all around the country and meet with employees without any other leadership in the room but myself. And just ask them those questions. What are we doing well? What are we not doing well? How are you doing? And those are really difficult sessions because once people trust the fact that you’re going to honor what you say, meaning what you tell me stays with me, I’m not going to dime anybody out in the room, I’m going to try to fix the things I hear, you start to get the real feedback from people. And, and I think as a leader, there’s some really pretty simple things you can do to help address burnout within team. First is to acknowledge it, that it’s going on. And the first way you do that is you sit down with a team and say, look, I know everybody on this team’s burned out. We’re two heads short. We’ve not been given the budget to replace those two heads. I know you are all doing, you know, double duty and you’ve been doing it for a long time. I also know that we’re not going to see any relief until January of 2025. So we’ve got to hold this thing together for the next three months. So here’s what we’re going to do. And it could be fun things. Hey, Fridays, we’re going to, you know, one o’clock. the pizza trucks going to roll up or I’m bringing sandwiches in and we’re going to do an hour and a half trivia game. Or we’re going to do, you know, we’re going to go off site, we’re going to go to bowl in an afternoon. You have to be intentional and let people know that, hey, your well being is important to me. And sure, everything going on in the company is important, but you’re more important. So we’re going to take an hour and a half once a week or once every two weeks, and we’re going to do something completely silly and unrelated to the work that we’re supposed to be doing, or we’re going to go off site. And we’re just going to get away from this for a little bit, we’re going to give you a chance to start your weekend on a high note. Or do it on a Monday, when people are kind of coming back dreading work, you do something like that. It’s little things. And, and I’ve seen some managers over the years do some really creative stuff where I just sit back and go, wow, that was brilliant. And to see the smiles on people’s faces, to see the camaraderie where people realize, hey, it’s not just Chuck that’s suffering through this stress or Dave that’s suffering through this stress. It’s everybody on the team. And we’re all in this together. If we just stick together, we’re going to be OK. And if I’m having a bad day, I know Chuck’s going to pick up the pace for me and vice versa. If he wants to be there for the first day of school for his daughter, even though it’s super busy, that’s important for him to be there. I’m covering for him. And you want to do those things. If you can do that at a personal level throughout the organization. And the important thing is you have to let your managers know you want them to do this. You expect them to do this because I would try to do that for my leadership team, too. When we were together, we would try to build in some time where it was just fun, where people got a chance to bond with their peers, people that they didn’t normally work with. But to build that esprit de corps, and you served, so you know how important that is, right? Because there are things that get really crappy during the day. And yet, if you feel like I’m actually on a team, and I have people that are watching out for me, and I’ve got people that are going to pull me up when I’m down, that’s important. And it’s important that leaders do that for their own team. And so I think being transparent, number one, and acknowledging I know we don’t have enough resources right now, or I know I couldn’t buy the software program you guys really hope we would be able to get and take ownership of it. And I would acknowledge those things in my meetings with employees. I would tell people all the time, this is why we had to do the layoff. This is why we selected the group we selected. I would be as transparent as I could humanly be, because I think when you’re transparent, and you acknowledge what people are feeling and they can see that you’re trying to do something about it, that helps with that burnout. It really does. And that for people that are really struggling, making sure they have access to the resources that the company offers through EAP and getting the counseling or other support that they might require, all of those things are a manager’s responsibility. And it’s the most senior leader’s responsibility, the CSO, to make sure that his or her team broadly is, is having those types of opportunities offered to them.

CHUCK:
I love that transparency, active listening and acknowledgement. You know, I remember my own time, like, you know, you’d be, well, you wouldn’t be surprised Dave, but you know, like four or five pizzas brought into the GSOC Christmas Eve night and you bring them yourself. It’s a big deal. It’s a big deal because it lets people know like, I, yeah, I see you. I know this sucks. I’m here too.

DAVE:
Yeah. That is a, that is something that is so important. And I think so many leaders miss this, whether it’s, you know, Christmas Eve, Christmas morning, Thanksgiving, when you’ve got, you know, your dispatch team, your GSOC team, an officer standing post. just driving around with a box of doughnuts and coffee for people and saying, hey, thank you for being here. I know you’d rather be home with your family, but what you’re doing is important and thank you for being here today. That goes a long way, that acknowledgement.

38:47

CHUCK:
Dave, I forgot, and thanks for reminding me, and one thing we’re asking folks now, and I am curious to hear this from you. I mean, you know, we’ve rebranded, we’re the, you know, the Yonchick Connected Intelligence Podcast. I mean, if I say to you, what does connected intelligence mean, what would your response be?

DAVE:
I think, at least to me, it’s really having that integrated situational awareness and leveraging all of the capabilities, all the signals that you have out there in your organization, the human signals, the software programs that you use, the data that you gather, and being able to integrate that in a way where it tells a story and that you understand where your risks and vulnerabilities are, where you should be applying resources, where you should be applying additional spend, just as importantly, where you have a gap that’s not being filled and being able to identify what does that gap look like? Where does it exist? Why is it there? How can we fix it? The only way you can know all those things is if you connect all the dots. And then you can see the patterns where things are working well. And you can see the disconnects where you’ve got blind spots. And in the environment we live in today, blind spots are really dangerous, especially with increasing use of AI, not knowing where you’re vulnerable, somebody else will figure that out very quickly because AI will help them do it. That connected intelligence piece is really, to me, leveraging all of your capabilities in a way where it’s all brought together and you’ve got that 360 overview of what’s working and what’s not working, and more importantly, how to fix it.

CHUCK:
Awesome, awesome. Well, Dave, I appreciate you, my friend, and thank you for being on Ontic’s Connected Intelligence Podcast.

DAVE:
Hey Chuck, thank you again for the opportunity to be with you today, and I really enjoyed the conversation.

CHUCK:
Thanks for listening in. To find more episodes, visit us at ontic.co forward slash podcasts. Don’t forget to rate and subscribe on your streaming platform of choice. Know someone who would be a great guest or have questions you’d like us to answer? Email us at podcast at ontic.co. This episode was produced by the mighty AJ McKeon. This is Chuck Randolph. Until next time.